Exuding Strength (No Shit...Some Poker Thoughts For Once)
Friday, November 09, 2007
Last night I was outplayed near the end of my run at the Riverchasers BBTwo event (methinks the kids would say I was pwned). I can't remember the last time I stuffed my chips in good against Surf. He definitely knows my game and plays on my weaknesses. I guess that will happen when you drive 20 hours with someone and talk poker the whole way. He set me up and then rolled me over at the perfect time. Well played, sir.
We were down to under 30 remaining and the blinds were starting to get into that steal, re-steal range where so many chips are accumulated. Surf was raising a goodly amount and re-raised me off of a hand and showed down, I think, K3d. At the time I told him I folded the better hand, but it wasn't really true. I held TQd so it was a good fold by me. Bottomline was it was a good play by him. In hindsight, it was a great set-up play.
Only minutes later I raised his BB while I was in the SB with KQo. He popped it again and I pushed all-in over the top. Again, in hindsight it is so obvious I've been set-up, but I just didn't accept it at the time. As it were, he had me near dead with his AQ, and the board gave me nothing sending me packing. I was only a couple of spots from the points, but I don't give a rats arse about cracking into the points. I want final tables and top 3 finishes. Obviously I want a win, but you gotta get to the final table first, so that must be a goal.
I'm already ready for next weeks BBTwo events.
A question for you pokery thinking folks. This is not very deep thinking, and certainly nothing new, but I just want to gauge your thoughts...
You are in a tourney or sng and you have gotten a hand to heads-up. You maintain a chip lead over your opponent of, lets say, atleast 2 to 1. Do you exude more strength when putting a player all-in by betting/raising an amount at or just over their chipcount or by stuffing your entire stack into the middle?
Now let me take this question one extra step. Assuming the same scenario where you ARE going to put a player all-in, what's the better play when you desire a call and what is the better play when you would just as well like to see a fold and take the pot down without a call?
Bonus question I just thought about. What about adding The Hoy or Reverse Hoy in the above scenario (for those that don't know those terms...putting them all-in except for one of their chips or putting all your chips in except for one of your chips). Does that exude strength in the above scenario as well?
Finally, what do you think non-bloggers think when you bust out The Hoy or Reverse Hoy on them?
I know, I know, way too many questions, so take your pick and answer which ever ones you want...
In case you missed my post(s) from yesterday, I WILL be making it to the WPBT Winter Gathering this year and I'm extremely stoked. ChickJax is also very excited as well. I'm so glad she'll be there to help roll my drunk ask around in the wheelchair all weekend. Think the arm handles of the chair will fit under the poker tables?
It was a very cool thing to receive a voice message, a text, an email and an instant message, each from different people, only hours after posting that we were going to be making the trip. Way to utilize all the communication avenues folks! I just wish I still had a pager so someone could have "hit me on the hip" as well.
Until next time, may the felt be with you.
posted by TripJax @ 9:38 AM,
6 Comments:
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At 11:00 AM,
Riggstad said...
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The question about shoving all in or betting just enough to cover them is a good one and has more to do with your opponent than it does any blanket example...
shoving your whole stack into a shorter stack shows confrontation.
I use that method when the opponent proves to be on tilt, or has shown a propensity to talk more game than he has. that usually illicits a call no matter what he is holding. Kind of like an FU, come get it type thing,
If I am playing a patient, or tight player, an amount near his stack, rather than just shoving all of it tends to get more calls when I want it. Just my experience... -
At 12:34 PM,
said...
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We get to meet ChickJax? Excellent!
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At 2:28 PM,
Astin said...
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Really depends on the player. It doesn't matter if your opponent can't get past level 1 thinking.
But if they'r paying attention, than a bet that covers them might seem more thought-out and dangerous than just a straight "shove and see what happens" all-in. If they're going deeper, than the cover-bet could look like a lure.
As for the Hoys. I find a Hoy bet no scarier than an all-in, but I love the reverse Hoy. Putting someone in for all but 1 chip tends to get them pushing. I think it shifts the mentality to "do I call?" to "I might as well shove for 1 more chip." It's worked far more often than I can count. And when it doesn't work, it takes a lot of thought for the other player to lay it down I find. -
At 7:00 PM,
RaisingCayne said...
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I've pondered this before myself. And made a point to think about it specifically. Especially when I'm BEING PUSHED... I consider whether or not a different amount from villain would affect my (identical all in) decision. (As I believe it most definitely should NOT.)
I've always thought that the OVER shove of your whole stack is more intimidating and leads to more folds than the bet exactly what they have move. Betting just what villain has back, I believe, more often comes across as a possible bluff. But, that's just been my findings at the petty buy in levels.
Can't say I have any experience with "the Hoy" or "the reverse Hoy," 'cept for being the victim of it in a few bloggerments. Each time I do consider whether a different move would lead to a different decision.
Good question! (Have fun in Vegas!) -
At 9:33 AM,
lightning36 said...
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Tough to answer the "shove" questions since each SNG is different. I like to shove to intimidate, and rarely do a "Hoy" or raise for the exact amount of chips they have left. Instead, I sometimes prefer to raise enough to decimate their stack but keep them in the game with a short stack, which really sucks to play.
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At 2:10 PM,
Hammer Player a.k.a Hoyazo said...
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I have a little different approach than most of the commenters above I think. Generally speaking I find that betting an amount that is close to, but not quite all, of either my or my opponent's stack comes off as the most intimidating bet of all. As if I didn't want to bet it all because I really want a call here and don't want to scare anyone off with a large number of chips. I have used this move against strong, solid players about a billion times and have found it to have the desired result of indicating good strength, almost always eliciting a fold unless my opponent is holding the nuts or is already pot committed. But all this stuff is only what I do against actually good players.
In the blonkaments I will reverse Hoy your ass any day of the week. Maybe I'm bluffing and maybe I'm not, but it's my way of putting you allin and also making you feel small while I do it.
Btw I reverse hoy people constantly outside of the blonkaments as well, and in general they tend to perceive it as a dick move. Good.
Nice questions, good post as always. See you tonight at the Hoy!
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